tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6786809981065530267.post6717335039154074045..comments2024-03-14T09:05:08.053-07:00Comments on Special Ed Philosopher: Ayn Rand, Tibor Machan, and Their Mistaken Defense of Objective MoralityKevin Currie-Knighthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17401531417243089948noreply@blogger.comBlogger4125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6786809981065530267.post-89016343597527309072009-06-21T03:17:19.549-07:002009-06-21T03:17:19.549-07:00So this piece begins by referring to an essay of ...So this piece begins by referring to an essay of mine that is available in various forms now, on line and off, but then nothing of what I wrote is offered. So then why not skip me entirely, as the text actually does, instead of invoking my name and doing nothing with my ideas?<br /><br />Tibor MachanTiborhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11489130839277616022noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6786809981065530267.post-50736204026486012272009-03-03T01:26:00.000-08:002009-03-03T01:26:00.000-08:00Kevin Currie wrote: > that doesn't negate t...Kevin Currie wrote: > that doesn't negate the fact that one can also enrich and flourish in their <EM>[sic]</EM> lives by freeloading.<BR/><BR/>Actually it does -- if, that is, you're using "enrich and flourish" in the Aristotelian sense, which I <EM>believe</EM> (though I'm certainly no expert) was the sense that Ayn Rand used it: "the eudemonia of Aristotle's entelechy" is how she once described her ethical ideal -- meaning: fulfilling one's potential completely, which freeloading hardly does. In that sense, there <EM>is</EM> an obvious, necessary, and sufficient -- or, to borrow your rather extravagant typographical mannerism, OBVIOUS, NECESSARY, and SUFFICIENT -- connection between flourishing and productivity. <BR/><BR/>My understanding of Ayn Rand is that the ethics she espoused, which were competely derivative, are thoroughly teleological, in the Aristotelian sense of the word. I do for certain remember, from a lecture she once gave many years ago, that she endorsed Aristotle's definition of <EM>agathon</EM> (the good) as "that for the sake of which everything else is done." <BR/><BR/>As I recall, she was a somewhat qualified fan of Spinoza's ethics, which as you know are also autotelic:<BR/><BR/>A good X is the X which fulfills its nature.<BR/><BR/>She fully accepted that, I believe. <BR/><BR/>She also nodded approval at the so-called prudential ethics of philosopher (and beekeeper) Richard Taylor who wrote the following: <BR/><BR/>"The things that nourish and give warmth and enhance life are deemed good, and those that frustrate and threaten are deemed bad."<BR/><BR/>She's on record as saying that "life for man is primarily epistemological, not physical." <BR/><BR/>Thus, flourishing for her, as with Spinoza and Aristotle, did <EM>not</EM> mean growing fat and having plenty to drink and eat, and that's all. The primary thing for teleological ethics is fulfilling one's full potential. I don't think the freeloader would have met her idea of flourishing any more than he would have met Aristotle's idea of flourishing.Word of the Dayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05481187651474734987noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6786809981065530267.post-64644736509198911852009-01-30T13:39:00.000-08:002009-01-30T13:39:00.000-08:00Atlas Fan,It is true what you said that life in ge...Atlas Fan,<BR/><BR/>It is true what you said that life in general - society - requires productivity. But that doesn't negate the fact that one can also enrich and flourish in their lives by freeloading. My point is that there is no OBVIOUS, NECESSARY or SUFFICIENT connection between productivity and flourishing in life (on the individual level) like Rand and Machan assume.Kevin Currie-Knighthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17401531417243089948noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6786809981065530267.post-5624391266250124252009-01-29T12:30:00.000-08:002009-01-29T12:30:00.000-08:00Just one comment and it is the heart of the matter...Just one comment and it is the heart of the matter. Freeloading off of productive people does not negate the fact that life requires the productive.Thomas Rowlandhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02936086526966725798noreply@blogger.com